“I have become calmer and more balanced. The coacing licence helps. I want to be a role model for the younger generation”
Granit Xhaka is one of the Premier League’s defining players. In an exclusive interview, he discusses Sunderland AFC, its owner, lessons from Xabi Alonso, and how Arsenal shaped him.
Alexander Isak, Florian Wirtz, Nick Woltemade: once again this season, English clubs have completed spectacular transfers involving enormous fees. Yet the Premier League’s most valuable new arrival may well be another player altogether: the Swiss international Granit Xhaka, 33. The experienced midfield strategist moved last summer for around €15 million from Bayer Leverkusen—where in 2024 he won the league and cup double without suffering a single defeat—to newly promoted AFC Sunderland. The traditional club from north-east England, owned by Xhaka’s compatriot Kyril Louis-Dreyfus, currently find themselves surprisingly in the top half of the Premier League table, just two points off a Champions League place.
Since his breakthrough at FC Basel, Switzerland’s record international Xhaka (143 caps) has been captain at every subsequent stop: in Mönchengladbach, at Arsenal (until his falling-out with the fans), in Leverkusen, and now at Sunderland, as well as for the national team. Shortly before Christmas, Xhaka took time for a long afternoon-tea conversation. The holidays themselves were reserved for family and his three children. Owing to a complicated television-rights situation, the traditional Boxing Day round of fixtures was cancelled this year, with most matches instead taking place this weekend. Sunderland host fellow promoted side Leeds United on Sunday.
BTL: Mr Xhaka, when speaking about your move to Sunderland you said you wanted to experience “moments of suffering” there. How much suffering has there been so far?
Granit Xhaka: A great deal—even if it doesn’t always look that way from the outside. Suffering doesn’t only mean fighting relegation. It also means enduring long spells without the ball, staying compact and defending consistently—like in the 2–2 draw against Arsenal (the league leaders; editor’s note). That’s new for me, because I’ve never played for a newly promoted team before. Until now, my clubs usually had much more possession.
Why does Sunderland suit you so well?
I feel that I and the people here grew up in similar circumstances: very down-to-earth, hard-working, and driven by a strong will to achieve something. My parents came to Basel with an Albanian background—without the language, without friends, without relatives. In our neighbourhood there were architects and tax advisers, but also alcoholics and drug addicts. So my path could have gone in many different directions. I benefited from my parents’ upbringing—and from my older brother Taulant (also a professional footballer).
How did the transfer come about?
Some decisions take time, but this one I made immediately. The owner called me sometime in June, around 11 p.m. In Albania, they say a call at that hour means either something bad—or something big. At first, I thought it was a joke and didn’t believe it was really the owner. You know each other in Switzerland, of course, but I didn’t know a Swiss owned an English club. What mattered was that, in none of my previous transfers, had the owner personally reached out. That impressed me.
What did Kyril Louis-Dreyfus, at 28 the youngest chairman in the league, say?
That he absolutely wanted to sign me. And he followed through on that. The transfer fee was similar to what Leverkusen had paid Arsenal two years earlier—although I was younger back then. I’m a player who needs appreciation, and he gave me that feeling.
What appeals to you about Sunderland from a sporting perspective?
The return to the Premier League and a new challenge. If money had been my priority, I would have left Europe. I had offers where I could have earned several times my salary. But I’m in top physical condition and have played more than 120 competitive matches over the past two years. The key question was: do I still have the energy to lead a young team? In the Premier League, that’s extremely demanding because of the density of quality. In the end, I was convinced: yes, I can do it.
Doesn’t it bother you that at Sunderland you play alongside many young talents rather than exceptional players like Florian Wirtz, with whom you shared the pitch at Leverkusen?
There is only one Florian Wirtz—that has to be acknowledged. At this stage, it gives me more fulfillment if, in a few years, a great player emerges from my Sunderland team and I’ve been able to contribute a small part to that, than if I myself scored 50 goals or was surrounded by stars. At my age, it’s about shedding possible airs and remembering your own time as a young player—when you yourself needed support.
When did this mindset develop?
Four or five years ago, when I started working on my coaching licenses at Arsenal. I now hold the UEFA A License. That helps—along with age and experience—to view football from a different perspective. I want to make other players better: through performance, motivation, leadership.
What defines your team?
Energy and team spirit. Without that, we would never have this many points. Big names are nice, but if you’re not a team, you have no chance in modern football. I don’t see a single ego in our squad—no one who complains when a gym session is scheduled. Everyone is driven to be better tomorrow than today. You have to earn luck by doing everything possible. That understanding is what defines a good team.
How does that show on the pitch?
When we were 2–0 down against Bournemouth, we still won 3–2. That made it clear: if we believe in ourselves, we can achieve anything. Many opponents say we’re difficult to play against because we’re strong both with and without the ball. We have a solid balance, we’re dangerous from set pieces—and we have our fans as a twelfth man. The atmosphere at home matches is incredible. This bond between players, club and supporters is fundamental to success. I’m convinced that even after several defeats in a row, we would remain united.
What are your goals with Sunderland?
First, to secure survival—everything else is a bonus. So far, we haven’t spoken about the table a single time in the dressing room. From experience, I know the second half of the season can be challenging. We have potential and must continue to believe in ourselves—then we can have a successful campaign.
You yourself are one of the key success factors. What explains your consistency at the highest level? It often seems as though you improve with every season.
Since the incident with the Arsenal fans in October 2019, fundamental things have changed for me: discipline, recovery, sleep, nutrition, mindset, social circle. I’ve become calmer and more balanced. I also had the privilege of working with two coaches from whom I learned an enormous amount: Mikel Arteta at Arsenal and Xabi Alonso at Leverkusen—technically, tactically, but above all on a human level. The latter is the most important.
At the end of 2019, a club change seemed inevitable: Arsenal fans booed you as you were substituted, and you responded with provocative gestures.
Our suitcases were actually already packed. My father, who has always been very critical of me, had said throughout my career: “If you run away once, you’ll always run away.” But in that situation he unusually advised me: “You have to leave. When the fans turn against you, that’s the worst thing in football. Then you have no chance anymore.”
So why did you stay at Arsenal after all?
Because of the coach. I only knew Mikel Arteta by name at the time and had never met him personally. When he took over at Christmas 2019, he immediately sought me out and wanted to hear my version of events. Even so, I told him afterward: “Mikel, with all due respect, I wish you every success, but I can’t wear this shirt anymore.” The next day he came back to me and said, word for word: “Granit, I need you. Give me six months to convince you that you’re the right one. I can’t make you captain again, but I’ll build the team around you. If I don’t succeed, I’ll be the first to help you leave the club.” I’ll never forget that conversation. Even today I get goosebumps thinking about it. His words were so powerful. I stood up, hugged him and said: “Okay, I’ll stay!” It was the only decision of my career I made without consulting my family. In hindsight, it was an incredibly instructive period that I wouldn’t want to miss.
You then won the FA Cup with Arsenal in 2020 and finished second in the Premier League in 2023.
I’ll always be grateful to Arteta. He brought me back to the level I’m at today. He’s fair and honest. He doesn’t care what name stands in front of him: if you don’t do what he demands, you don’t play. When our then-captain Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang arrived late to a team meeting before a derby against Tottenham, Arteta dropped him from the squad—despite the uproar on match day.
Why didn’t you stay in London longer?
Bayer Leverkusen offered me a long-term contract, I wanted to return to Germany, and it felt like the perfect moment to say goodbye. I also wanted to make room at Arsenal for younger players. With Declan Rice, the club had found a very good successor.
What influence did Leverkusen have on your career?
The club opened every door for me and made my name and personality even bigger. What we achieved together in those two years was truly incredible. Had we also won the Europa League, it would have been the perfect, perfect, perfect season. Winning the first league title in the club’s history was indescribable—the highlight of my career so far.
Is there a principle you took from Xabi Alonso and Mikel Arteta?
Yes—and I can’t thank both of them enough for it. At my first meeting with the Leverkusen management, I asked Xabi how, as a player, he was always one step ahead mentally. When I had previously faced his Bayern Munich side with Gladbach, I could never pin him down in midfield. His answer was: “I count the opponents.” By that he meant: if there were six opponents on the left side, he knew exactly that there were only four on the other. That sentence fascinated me deeply.
Why?
Because it requires an extremely quick grasp of situations. Since then, with his help and through video analysis, I’ve worked on it in training and matches. He’s right—it helps enormously. At first, it feels like learning a new language: you have to get used to it. But once you’ve got the hang of it, it becomes almost automatic.
And Arteta?
He always wanted the defensive midfielder to position himself on the vertical line of the opposing centre-back who had the ball, to prevent a direct pass into the striker’s feet. As a number six, you usually stand a little too far inside. By positioning yourself on the same line, you narrow the space for the opponent—especially since the opposing winger often moves inside as well. In this way, you cleverly cover a large part of the pitch. The centre-back, who is also under pressure from the attacker, can usually only play the ball to the full-back or launch it long. The latter gives the team valuable seconds while the ball is in the air.
Both Arteta and Alonso were, like you, midfield conductors. What matters most in that position?
You are the heart of the team and perhaps carry the greatest responsibility on the pitch. Simply standing still and trusting your teammates doesn’t work here. It’s about being available, setting the tempo and direction of the game, recognizing spaces and always being there for the team. A player in this role has to anticipate where the ball will go next. That can only be trained to a limited extent—it requires game intelligence and also the courage to demand the ball in risky situations.
All Champions League winners in recent years have had outstanding playmakers: Vitinha (Paris Saint-Germain), Toni Kroos (Real Madrid), Rodri (Manchester City), Jorginho (Chelsea), Thiago Alcântara (Bayern Munich). Are defensive midfielders underrated?
Definitely! Unfortunately, we don’t shine as much as strikers who score goals. People often forget how much preparatory work is involved. That’s why I think we deserve a bit more credit.
You’ve mostly played as a number six, but at Arsenal also as a number eight. What’s the difference?
As a link player, I have more freedom going forward, can join attacks in the box and try to score goals and provide assists. As a six, on the other hand, I’m the organizer. I think less offensively and more about what could happen if we lose the ball. The priority is to occupy the central position. That suits me better, even though I enjoyed my more advanced role at Arsenal.
You’re now passing all this accumulated knowledge on at Sunderland. Arteta once said you have a “superpower” that could change an entire club. What is your leadership style?
At first, I’m rather quiet and observe a lot. Only once I know how to deal emotionally with each player do I open up more. I have a good feel for people and try to be myself and convey my values: respect, decency, discipline. I never point the finger at others before questioning myself. Recently, I had a poor training session and came home in a bad mood. My wife asked how I could still react like that at 33. If I ever lose that drive—to challenge myself and perform at the highest level—I’ll stop, regardless of how long my contract runs. I want to be a role model for the younger generation.
What did you take with you as a young player in Basel?
At my first training camp with the senior team, at 17, I was completely exhausted after a session and wanted to lie down on the massage table. Then personalities like Alexander Frei, Marco Streller and others came along and immediately sent me back out. That was an important lesson! I still like that old-school mentality far more than the so-called new-school way of thinking.
How do coaches deal with your strong opinions?
They’ve always given me the freedom to express my views. I’ve never told a coach how he should play. I only make suggestions about how something might work better—the final decision always lies with the coach. It’s the same with Régis Le Bris …
… your current coach at Sunderland, who has described you as a “second coach.”
Yes, I have a very open relationship with him. He communicates a lot and listens to us players, which is what defines a good coach. Our first conversation lasted an hour; we were immediately on the same wavelength and share a similar understanding of football. Everyone can continue to develop—at 18, 33 or 45.
One thing stands out: you last received a red card in club football four and a half years ago—during Arsenal’s 5–0 defeat to Manchester City—despite having been sent off fairly regularly earlier in your career. How did that change come about?
I realized that it only harms my team. There’s a huge difference between losing 2–0 and losing 5–0 with a red card—the latter is massively amplified by the media. I can also assess better now how to behave in certain situations. With VAR, you have to be particularly careful about the intensity of challenges. And I’ve also earned a different standing with referees over time.
After this season comes the 2026 World Cup. Switzerland have qualified once again. Where does the consistency come from—having been present at every major tournament since missing Euro 2012?
We have a golden generation and are a united team without big names. Over the years, we’ve had many good coaches—Ottmar Hitzfeld, Vladimir Petković and now Murat Yakin. Switzerland has always had technically and physically strong players. Under Vladimir, who had previously spent two years at Lazio, we also took a huge step forward tactically. We’re still benefiting from that today.
How do you see the prospects for the Swiss team?
We’re not at our limit yet! With a bit of luck, we could have gone further than the quarter-finals at Euro 2024. I think our chances at the upcoming World Cup are even better, because our young talents have recently gained valuable tournament experience. We have the potential to reach at least the round of 16—and the ambition to achieve even more.
Looking ahead to your planned coaching career: how long do you want to keep playing?
As long as I’m healthy, fit and hungry. Many coaches have advised me: play for as long as you can. Everything else can come later.